Think before you 'Flame' !!

written by Antabax | 5:37:00 PM | | 55 comments »

Quickie: Dota 6.46 is out. Get it here.

Dota players has grown to quite a number here in Malaysia and the rest of the world. It is easy to play for a newbie and it gets interesting once you have mastered it and it will become much more intense when it comes to tournaments. In Malaysia, Dota dominated the local gaming scene and almost all cyber cafes in Malaysia have the mod dota in their computers with about 60-80% of their customers are playing it. Tournaments for Dota are held almost every month. There are a lot of reasons for this Dota phenomenon but I should talk about it next time. As usual, the downside of this is that other games such as Counter-Strike, Warcraft and Starcraft are getting less and less popular and thus some of their community began to flame (criticize) Dota. This can be accepted because in Malaysia, the gaming community is still not that large and when about 60-80% of them are already on Dota, the chances of the other games to reach a competitive level will be quite hard (Counter-Strike, Warcraft, Fifa etc etc) especially when the only tournaments held is for Dota. Of course there will be a lot of complaint among the gamers and eventually this leads to the flaming of Dota. As a fellow gamer, especially for Dota, I will hereby state some defensive statements to some of the bad remarks thrown by the others. Im not a fanboy or anything but I think it is an injustice to hate Dota just because it is popular. There are other ways to promote the games that you play. Take a look at Counter-Strike. Last time it was the most famous game in Malaysia and for your information, it is a MOD also, just like Dota. Counter-Strike also changed the gameplay of Half-Life like Dota changed the gameplay of Warcraft.

" In Counter-Strike, its all about timing, aiming and instinct and not forgetting, strategy ! "

Lets start with “Dota are for noobs who dont know how to micro-manage (control a lot of creeps/heroes/units) thus they cant play Warcraft and opt to play the more easy and almost no usage of micro-manage, Dota” and “Dota are for noobs because it is an easy game where you control only 1 unit”. Eventhough im not a fanboy but this really sound harsh to me as a gamer who plays Dota a lot. I don't think this type of remark is logical at all. It is just plain flame. For starters, not all who play Dota are interested in Warcraft-type of game (rts = real time strategy). So when they play Dota, does that mean that they tried to play Warcraft and suck at it ? Even if its true, who cares ? Not all gamers can play an rts-type game and be pro at it. Thats why there is a lot of genre like example fps (first-person shooter, Counter-Strike) and sport (Fifa). Dota is theoretically not a pure rts-type of gameplay anymore. You dont need to build buildings for units to spawn or balance ur supply of food for ur base but you do need to farm for gold. In Dota, you just control 1 hero and you can see that it is similar to Counter-Strike where you control just 1 unit. So in Dota, ofcourse the skill micro-manage dont apply but you need a quick response and be alert because each of the characters in Dota have their own abilities (up to four per char) for you to use depending on the situation (same like Counter-Strike where you need to practice your aiming and also your alertness and instinct is very important). So dont ever compare Dota and Warcraft in terms of gameplay. Never heard people comparing Counter-Strike and Half-Life. Heck, people praise the makers of Counter-Strike.

" You need to micro-manage ur heroes and units well in Warcraft to be able to win matches "

Next is “Dota has a boring type of gameplay, imbalance heroes and spells”. Ok, if they found that Dota is boring then what I can say here is that Dota is not their cup of tea. Hey, I do like Counter-Strike and Warcraft but I play Dota more often because people around me play Dota and I can play it comfortly at my home while Counter-Strike is quite hard to play at home (it is a very obvious reason here in Malaysia). For Warcraft, I admit, rts is not my cup of tea no matter how much I like it. For me, Dota is an interesting game overall. There are a lot of things u can do with it. For example, there are a lot of items and each of the items have its own properties, quite a number of heroes to choose with their own abilities and also, for teamplay, there are a lot of combos to use and timing it with the right skills, spells and abilities is important to perfectly execute a combo and you say this is easy and not challenging ? Its almost the same as those pushes and rushes in Counter-Strike. About the imba thingy, well not all game started perfect, heck even Starcraft and Warcraft have patches until today to fix the imba issue. Have you not heard of the imba mass human tower for Warcraft ??

" Teamwork, timing and combo is the main important thing in a Dota match "

Last but not least, “I bet you all that those 'dotards' (Dota fanboy) for sure don't know a thing about the original game, Warcraft and heck I dont think they play through all the campaign in it”. Ok, now all who play Counter-Strike, can you raise up your hand if you play the original Half-Life through its story and mission. Huh ? Only a few ? Nuff said.


Before I end this, I just want to state that I am not a fanboy of Dota nor I hate Warcraft and the other games. Its just that I feel its unfair to diss dota just because its gaining more popularity than the other games (especially in Malaysia). There are a lot of ways you can do to gain the popularity of the games you play. Take a look at Need For Speed and Fifa. The gamers who play it in Malaysia found ways to gain players hence making it a popular game. Slowly but surely, you can see the Counter-Strike scene in Malaysia is building up again with a lot of new clans popping up. For Fifa, there is an online league created by these gamers to play against each other and recently, there is this tournament called 'CelGames' where games like Fifa and Need for Speed is involved (the other games involved is Battlefield 2142 and Command and Conquer III) and mind you, there is no Dota and I dont see any Dota players complaining about it and to think of it, even in WCG (World Cyber Games), they dont have Dota except for the mini-event, Asian Cyber Games. If a pro Warcraft player in Malaysia, for example, paulyan, can play Dota (with team RoA and they will represent Malaysia for the upcoming Asian Cyber Games this weekend at Singapore) and doesnt have a problem with it, I dont see why we still need to flame Dota anymore.

55 comments

  1. revkia // August 2, 2007 at 8:34 PM  

    hey i finished wc3's campaign in easy and normal. both ROC and TFT.

  2. Anonymous // August 3, 2007 at 9:41 AM  

    ok, im officially a dotard. i get pissed when people diss me for playing dota. hello, dota is the most popular game now in malaysia. those who diss us must be the one who have no frens to play games. screw them !

  3. Avicenna // August 3, 2007 at 11:01 AM  

    If there is no DOTA server than we will get bored playing alone or vs AI or playing with the same people everyday . ahaha

    Fifa server hard to join . AOE server also hard . CS server is the same. So , antabax , create new server in Malaysia please ! ZzZzZ ...

    p/s : I think if Fifa server is like DOTA server (blueserver) , wah so nice , can play everyday vs people and join league like MMU League . ahaha .

    Imagine Man U fanboy playing in FIFA server .
    *shouting shouting = too tension / too happy :))

  4. Antabax // August 3, 2007 at 11:57 AM  

    careers at baker @ http://bakerroofing.com/job_listings.php
    True, not all players are gifted players, playing to be that of a pro takes years of practice, I think the micro manage thing is just a little issue here, why would people hate a game just because it's popular? Maybe, because their game is being overly played by DOTA, the point here is, counter strike fanboys are just jealous.

    greed @ http://greed.blogsome.com/
    Right on, please stop flaming a game that is more popular than other games (CS, SC) , gamers should just unite and, not taking into consideration how popular a game is, games are created for amusement and not as a tool for hatred.

    anonymous
    Nahhh...understand the nature of Ori WC3..~Imagine CS being converted into some maple story levelling game...then lets say ppl love it so much and started playing it alot (like dota) how would you feeel? What i get from players that play only dota is 'Dowan laaa i dont like meleee..complicated...dunno how to play and what not'...come on understanding the original wc3 is the key~is not like Tiny is a Hero is the real game@@ wtf? illidan(soul keeper) can make image? O_o?? And when i say Dreadlord then ppl would 'WTF IS THAT! U NOOB! (suppose to be Night Stalker in the dota)...Thats what i felt laaa...playing a custom game but not how it was originally made is really not the gamer's style :P

    As for the non gifted micro management thingie~learn lo...you dont have to play like a pro...just click attack..so easy maaa~who call you micro 1 by 1 and hit? Becoz ppl sudah 'manja' la playing dota too much...heard 3 hero only sudah takut

    Thats my few cents on the topic..totally disagree with the whole message~i play more DOTA than melee games...but still i would never support players to NOT TRY at least freaking once how the game suppose to be

    anonymous
    lol my bad..Dreadlord doesnt look like Balanar...Balanar is one of the drealord family...forgot his real name

    p:s: shifted from gosu shaman.

  5. KiDo // August 3, 2007 at 3:39 PM  

    B4 started on dota i was in cs like 24/7,even joined tourneys b4 @@" once i started dota 2yrs bak,haven been cs-ing,24/7 on dota oO" 2 me,der's ntg 2 flame bout favourable games,n if its based on comparison of popularity alone...its totally lame n retarted kinda flamin =.= btw,qop,sf n tinker gosus,come share ur stories of ur proness,if ya'll don mind

  6. MTH // August 3, 2007 at 4:02 PM  

    wtf " ive finished roc and tft" o.O ONG LU INGAT PRO EDI?haha.

  7. jenglot // August 3, 2007 at 5:29 PM  

    i am sf gosu. u know SK Loda ? before this, its T_T Loda ? he learn from me. watch his replay dude !

  8. revivar // August 4, 2007 at 11:05 AM  

    i finished SC, SC:BW, RA2, CNC:TS, CNC:Generals, CNC3, AOE2, AOM dan lain lain.

    i felt gosu. kakakakak

  9. Anonymous // August 4, 2007 at 12:08 PM  

    tinker can really be godlike. early-mid games, u just go around the map back stabbing hero. get boots of travel fast then maybe guinsoo. oh yea, get bottle as ur first item and get it fast. make sure ur team control the rune.

  10. hizperion // August 4, 2007 at 2:30 PM  

    lol dota

  11. notdgosu // August 4, 2007 at 4:58 PM  

    aku tak main melee aku tak main dota aku main night of the dead. tak kecoh pon.

  12. Anonymous // August 4, 2007 at 6:27 PM  

    dota for noobs.

  13. chickenshyt // August 4, 2007 at 9:50 PM  

    i agree. dota is getting more popular now. those who are not playing dota are a FAG.

  14. Anonymous // August 5, 2007 at 1:45 AM  

    dota is getting popular and many players from other countries also play dota. there are many leagues at us and western and eastern europe. however, itis hard to organise a dota team since we need 5 players to form a team, and with our busy lives, it is hard for that team to last for long, especially for those who still need to further their studies. that why rts game got single player such as fifa, war3 are more 'realistic' compare to dota, cs..

  15. harrypotter // August 5, 2007 at 10:27 AM  

    realistic or not, dota is my life !

  16. Anonymous // August 5, 2007 at 7:04 PM  

    i play dota everyday. no kaki play melee wc3. cs also no kaki. only dota got kaki.

  17. luna // August 5, 2007 at 10:06 PM  

    flame dota till we die !

  18. Kenny // August 5, 2007 at 11:32 PM  

    well.. isnt dota a map? its definitely not a mod right. correct me if im wrong but TFT is a mod for wc3 :)

    well, yes dota is gaining popularity since really good eqs are not required and nubs can join a match easily by joining random creators.

    but since the other games are blooming. i dont need to flame dota anymore :P

  19. Antabax // August 6, 2007 at 12:00 AM  

    tft is an expansion not a mod. a mod is something like, u used the original game to create something else like example Counter Strike. it is a mod for Half Life. If im not mistaken, mod = modification. Counter Strike modified Half Life. Same goes to Dota. Dota (the map) is a modified map/gameplay from Warcraft III.

    flame dota if you want la. can know what is your opinion about it :P !

  20. Anonymous // August 6, 2007 at 12:04 AM  

    tft isnt a mod.. its an add on. its just like half life blue shift. a mod's something more unofficial.. i mean done by some amateurs.. pls correct me if im wrong lol.

  21. revivar // August 6, 2007 at 11:05 PM  

    a mod is something like when u skin a game, change the parameters of weapons, units, equipments etc etc.

    These are mods

    Dota is not a mod.
    TFT is DEFINITELY not a mod.

  22. Web Team // August 7, 2007 at 6:42 AM  

    Most people would hate the game because they can't win from it. Those childish behaviors makes them flame like that. I knew someone who play the game because he keeps winning but when he got beaten, he just stop and says "this is boring".

  23. General Gaijin // August 7, 2007 at 9:55 AM  

    Mod or modification is a term generally applied to computer games, especially first-person shooters and real-time strategy games = warcraft (dota)

    They can include new items, weapons, characters, enemies, models, modes, textures, levels, story lines and game modes = dota

    These mods can add extra replay value and interest = dota

    Playing a mod might even become more common than playing the unmodified original (malaysia) = dota

    mod = modification, dota modify map from warcraft, hence a modification thus a mod of warcraft. nuff said ?

  24. bzzzT | IS // August 7, 2007 at 11:45 AM  

    erm share dota story..erm makes new fren then play together lo

  25. shutterspeaks // August 7, 2007 at 4:22 PM  

    the title said, "Think before you flame". As anticipated, some do flame. Use flame thrower la if you want to flame.

    Not a game player anymore.

  26. YunHo // August 7, 2007 at 5:52 PM  

    flamers dont think ,they are brainless haha

    oh and Kenny TFT is an expansion

    DoTA is a mod get your fact straight

    ----

    btw congrats for bzzzzt for winning 2nd runner up in UTeM anyway what happened to tDs?

  27. Kenny // August 8, 2007 at 6:46 PM  

    thats why i said correct me if im wrong. -_____-

    so raged for what?

  28. General Gaijin // August 9, 2007 at 12:27 AM  

    hahahaha, kenny is the anonymous who posted before ? yeah lor, what happen to tDs ?

  29. Kenny // August 10, 2007 at 4:07 AM  

    general, i wasnt, i dont need to be :)

  30. -ArmedandDangerous- // August 10, 2007 at 1:03 PM  

    First, Starcraft and Warcraft have patches to fix the original single-player game. DotA is a MOD and none of the character's stats or items are from Blizzard, that's why it's imbalanced. That's the thing about mods if you don't know, it's to CHANGE SOMETHING ALREADY EXISTING. So you can't compare patches for those games cos it doesn't affect how DotA plays. Patches or no patches makes no difference cos the units they control are different then in the game itself.

    Secondly, there is almost no strategy in DotA. You just have to memorize all the items and which items goes for who and you're set. I've played DotA before so you can't say I don't know anything about it. In Counter-Strike, it's ALL tactics and less on weapons you choose. I can have a weaker weapon but with superior strategy I can still PWN. With DotA, you just have to know when to run away and stay alive. That's all the strategy you need. And planning with a friend to flank another Hero is not really strategy, since you're only controlling one character, there's no skill involved, just pure memorizing of everything in the game.

    Thirdly, the world was introduced to Half-Life, but did it receive any promotions or anything like that? No. Warcraft 3 had 3 previous games as a backstory and Blizzard have been making games like nobody's business. Valve's first game was Half-Life so you cannot compare with a relatively new company with a mega company like Blizzard. They had the reputation to carry the game. Read up on everything before posting man.

    And these are the reasons I will continue to flame DotA ,because of it's lack of everything. Come by to my blog and flame me if you like. I don't care. I did my research and played tons of games the past 14 years as a gamer. Sue me.

  31. Antabax // August 10, 2007 at 3:34 PM  

    firstly u said that none of DOTA items are from blizzard ? this is 100% untrue. have u even played warcraft3 and DOTA to know the resemblance ? some items/skills are just the same as the warcraft. ofcourse there is some add-ons or it wont be called a mod. duh... so u thought that warcraft is not imba ? i guess u dont read that much. there is some imba issuse for wc3 but as usual, a right strategy can beat it. Same like warcraft, the so called imba BB can be countered.

    so whats the strategy with warcraft 3 then ? picking heroes ? build right buildings ? create the right units ? how to counter enemy ? memorizing items ? ok how bout dota ? need to pick 5 heroes for a team from about 100 heroes available ? choose the right combo ? buy the right item ? bait enemies and kill ? gang bang ? push ? counter spells ? well, if you are just seeing it from a normal non-competitive view, then I cant blame ya. dota its not just memorizing, heck every game have its own things to memorize. come and try play competitive dota and see if you can own just by memorizing....

    In competitive dota, you can have weaker items but still can win. I guess u never watched a top notch replay where team that are losing can bounce back with mere items and win the game. Have u watch team that are losing but can win ? Strategy involved here. Catch 1-2 heroes and kill em. After that you can push. Same like warcraft = ambush. Same like counter-strike = take down first. So whats the big deal here ?

    In warcraft you dont need to know when to run and stay alive ? How bout cs ? In warcraft, you fight in a place where it is not an advantage to u, example at the humans or night elf base, so u need to know if it is worth it or retreat first. Same like cs, u peek at the window and saw 5 people rushing there. Are you gonna fight them or you hide first and inform ur teammates ? So ??

    So dota dont have any strategy ? Lmao. You seriously dont know a thing about it. Watch some high class replay by MYM or SK and you might get some idea about it. Dont rant if you dont know about DOTA. Your claims are not correct.

  32. Kenny // August 11, 2007 at 6:58 AM  

    -ArmedandDangerous-, you're a little wrong there about cs being all strats and not depending on one's weapon. eco's are damn important if you wanna win the next round and without good weapons, you'll end up getting killed and the strat goes bad.

    if im not mistaken there was once a china team, hacker or wnv, i forgoten, was playing on their best map de_dust2, no denying its the chinese's best map. they did not wanna make a full save and buy full which is AKs and nades. their strats with galil didnt pay off and they lost when they should have won.

  33. -ArmedandDangerous- // August 11, 2007 at 4:17 PM  

    I said not ENTIRELY depending on the weapons. A MP5 is just as big a deal as a AK-47 when used properly. I use that until I die even though I may have $16000 to be spent. It's how you use your weapons,not what weapons you use. Grenades are different cos they're mostly used for distraction,hence it being a strategy component.

    To antabax:

    With warcraft,you can always create a diversion with different sets of armies, distract your opponent with a tank rush here while you sneak another army round the other side. That's strategy. Ok, I used the wrong words, DotA HAS strategy, but not tactics. Strategy is just what you plan to do,tactics involves skill. Careful planning. Strategy may not go your way if the opponent didn't fall for your tricks, but with tactics, it's a set plan for whatever may happen.

    And you have condufed yourself with Warcraft 3 and DotA. Firstly, you said 100% untrue, then you said SOME items/whatever come from them,so how can 100% only mean SOME?

    Secondly,I'm aiming the comments at DotA,and all you're saying is Warcraft this and Warcraft that. READ properly if you know what that means. Warcraft is Warcraft, DotA is DotA. Time you realised they're different.

    Any game can be tense and exciting with the right perspective, and I know you've seen "highly skilled" replays or whatever, DotA may be the biggest game in Malaysia now, but that doesn't make it good or in any way "great". You won't believe how many people I know started playing DotA because they have nothing else to play.

    You wanna compare RTS's? Sure, come have a one-on-one challenge with me on any game. Company of Heroes, C&C Generals, C&C Tiberium Wars, Medieval II, Supreme Commander. THOSE are real strategic and tactical games, unlike DotA which relies so much more on remembering what heroes are and what items benefit them most. Yes, there are games that need memorizing, but NO game makes memorizing a MUST like DotA. There's no strategy when there are so few ways to do things.

    From your post, you're a DotA fanboy, and no amount of arguing will make you think otherwise. INTERESTING gameplay when you first started playing DotA doesn't make the game good. Heck,everything is interesting the first time round. People continue playing it cos they have so much to remember, and want to be an all-rounder in all characters. That doesn't mean it's strategic. Why don't YOU take a look at CS replays from WCG players? Then tell me the're no strategy.

    Want to bombazzle me with DotA talk? Sure. How about smoke-screen, flash round the door and wall, fake frontal attack, knifing and careful sniping, run? Hide? Throw a grenade at an oil barrel,propelling it at the enemy? Plant a bomb and roll a barrel over it to conceal it? Smoke and flash a tunnel and shoot randomly while the other half of your team is on the other side of the map flanking them? THAT'S what I call strategy, not some "I have to get that whatever whatever item that adds this amount of stats to this whatever character so I can do this and that but I'll never know if it'll work cos it's -ar and what if I get a character I haven't memorized their strengths and items that make them powerful?"

  34. Kenny // August 12, 2007 at 9:11 PM  

    seriously sub machine guns VS rifles. both armor, rifle wins hands down man. and yea in a match there will always be helmets.

  35. -ArmedandDangerous- // August 12, 2007 at 11:30 PM  

    Oh yeah? Then you obviously haven't played enough CS. In terms of firepower,of course rifles,but they have higher recoil,making it harder to aim.

  36. Kenny // August 13, 2007 at 11:42 AM  

    have you even played CS competitively before. coz if you just play pub pawning noobs once in a while, i wont have to argue with you anymore.

  37. antabax // August 13, 2007 at 2:45 PM  

    I dunno what to say anymore because it will just continue at the same rate. and Im not a fanboy, I play almost all type of games just that I play dota a bit more and I was in a counter-strike team and even participated in wcg and some other small tourneys. if you dont like dota, well nothing can change your perceptions and you will keep on flaming. the only thing that can change someone's thought is to let them experience it but I doubt that you are goin to play dota in a "competitive" level. well somehow, my thoughts are somewhat similar to kenny. have a nice day. just a little thought for you, if you enter a tourney just with your "memorizing" skills, then I will doubt it that you will pass even the first round. you need strategy dude.

  38. Jassonvolt88 // August 13, 2007 at 3:14 PM  

    b4 i started playing dota, i'm into CS,FIFA n other rts game. IMHO.. i still think DOTA is one of the best MOD games that existed in our world. WHo say DOTA dun need to hav good micro skills? Chen,Holyknight need good controlling at it's own dominated creeps to pawn the opponents heroes. Beside that, there are few more heroes that need to control more than just a heroes. Beside that, it is aint easy to be a pro Dotarian. SO pls stop blasting Dota gamers. It is peoples right to choose what kind of game they want to play.

  39. delon85 // August 15, 2007 at 8:59 PM  

    Why bother comparing HL/CS and WC3/DotA. If I were you, I wont be comparing FPS genre with RTS vs hero-only-map. IF you do realise HL and CS doesnt have much difference in term of gameplay because its still FPS, just that in HL you can pawn AI or you can play DM with it and it is still FPS, same goes for CS. But the difference between WC3 and DotA is that WC3 is an RTS while DotA is a hero-only map. You dont have control over the base in DotA as in WC3 and the like so the gameplay difference is there (and yeah you just have to manage less and focus only on the hero). I hope you can see that the point I'm trying to put through here is you cant compare FPS and RTS in this case.

  40. mediocre // August 17, 2007 at 2:49 PM  

    Hi Antabax. I'm mediocre from mas-1 forum. I saw a few posts by you, then with some curiosity i clicked on your links that leads me to this page. Wah .. I would say: after reading your article about doTA and the future of malaysian gaming scene, I would like to praise you for writing this. Didn't realize you're so proactive in local E-sports, trying to promote gaming popularity with the right mindset, positive attitude in gaming, by any means necessary. I feel proud to be a malaysian gamer as well, since there are people who work hard for changing the mindset of young malayisan gamers for a better living style. We have someting in common: Play for passion and the right attitude. I always told myself: playing games are not totally useless, although i realized it had done some damage toward my studies. However, that's my problem since I didn't manage myself well. Ok back to DotA .. hmm .. let me recall .. before I play dotA, I'm just a normal kid who loves PC games very much. Very addictive player, 'invested' duno how much duit in cybercafes jor. Games I played were CS, WC3,DotA and finally downgrade back to 9 years old SC. But still, I played a lot of DotA > SC. This game is too addictive to me. It's true it's a simple game: anyone who played it before find it easy to manage. THe most exciting part of the game is able to execute a good combo when attempting to kill enemy heroes. That is my driving force for keeping me alive in DotA. Another aspect is displaying a good teamwork and coordination while pushing for enemy base. THis game somehow developed me into more assertive, responsive person, well, sometime I might get ignorant of'inexperienced' players by spoiling the game, I still hope to correct people's method of playing this game. The problem with DOtA players nowadays, as you can see on the conversations during gameplay, is unable to pull off a good relationship among team mates. Lack of common goal is what i think leads to the failure to live up a good gameplay. Well, this issue has improve from time to time. More players stand up to voice their concern over bad gameplay. I am very much reliaeved of todays gamers for their attitude. Hope gamers of Malaysia will continue to uphold the ethical gaming attitude.

  41. dota fan no 1 // August 18, 2007 at 1:43 PM  

    well said mediocre. good job !

  42. Cheesenium // August 18, 2007 at 8:08 PM  

    The reason DotA got so famous are because of all these illegal private servers and Warcraft 3's in-game map exchange.Without it,it's just a mod that barely anyone plays.

    Personally,I dont find DotA have much strategy.It's always these set of item for this hero,that set of idea for that hero.There arent much variation in item builds.

    Besides,I always find DotA has a flawed gameplay.Games in DotA tend to be one sided easily and the winner can be decided very early in the game.Incidents like the losing team win the game in the end is almost impossible but i have seen some.To me,that takes out almost all the fun in a game.Also,since DotA requires a lot of teamwork,players in a team tend to argue a lot if there is an inexperienced player in the team.

    Another thing i hate about people who play DotA is most of them are ignorant and always try to act smart while they know nuts about games.I have been getting a lot of stupid things like "Blizzard made DotA" or "Blizzard stole the Venomancer model and put it in Starcraft".It's making me sick.

    Lastly,when you are playing games,you dont have to play it just to become a pro.You can play a game casually to have fun.Sure,i can be sux in a RTS at some point of the time like now,i sux big time in C&C3.So what,i can learn from my mistakes and improve from there.Doesnt mean that you are not gifted in RTS and you have to avoid it and play shit like DotA.

  43. Antabax // August 20, 2007 at 4:06 PM  

    cheesenium, u must really really hate dota. lmao.

  44. mediocre // August 22, 2007 at 4:24 PM  

    Seriously, if you guys are tired of DotA, why not try play back Starcraft? or the conventional Warcraft III? RTS can improve your rate of respoding to your environment. IT's good to study the attributes of each unit and finding the suitable strategy to overcome your enemies.
    If Korea made SC proud, we malaysians made DotA proud. Way to go Malaysian spirit !

  45. Wasaki // August 29, 2007 at 1:55 PM  

    ppl who hate DotA are very sick. There are plenty of game out there that you only need to control one character or unit like Counter Strike, Diablo and Call of duty etc. So stop complaining.In fact, DotA is a micro intensive game and requires immense skills to play. Cheesenium, if you don't even know how to play DotA... stop calling yourself a gamer.

  46. soggie // September 6, 2007 at 10:16 AM  

    I disagree with the article. Firstly, you are beating a strawman. Not all bashers of dota bash because of the reasons you just said.

    I bash dotards mainly for their ignorance. It is fine if they go play their favourite game, I got no problem with that.

    But it becomes a problem when they start comparing other games that are far beyond dota's levels to their fav mod - dota. Like, saying Starcraft 2 ripped off DOTA's venomancers to create their hydralisks, and not even knowing that their beloved dota is a MOD of warcraft 3.

    I've played half life, and even the early betas of counterstrike, back at the time when there were only 4 guns. I even tried to get into the modding team itself, but that's another story.

    The key here is ignorance. Because dota is such an easy game to learn, a lot of youngsters who have no gaming history get onto it because its the new trend. I'm fine with this, just that please don't start fights you have no knowledge of, like claiming Unreal Tournament ripped off dota's mo-mo-monster kill!!!!!

    -_-"

  47. Play Boy // September 8, 2007 at 4:10 PM  

    so erm...is it playing dota no nid strategy?omfg... im a dota tournament player and i know wats gamers need to play dota..dota is a strategy + skill s games...without these 2..if u oni own skills..no matter how pro are u..without strategy u can lose to ppl 70-10?50-8?i dont know..u can try it out wif those top teams such as roa,sk etc.. so dun look down at dota..it takes much of times to train like roa and mkvl them..they really pay much of their time at there..can u do tat?if cant?atleast respect their dota sporting k?stfu and play ur mario

  48. Cyborg Cyclone // September 18, 2007 at 5:40 PM  

    soggie:

    Yes, that's what I hate about the DOTA community too, the ignorance. They spam "Dominating", "Killing spree" and "Godlike" everywhere, on the Internet and in real-life, as if DOTA originated it. I bet most of them haven't even heard of the Unreal Tournament series.

    play boy:

    Play Mario? Sure thing, I don't have any qualms playing Super Mario Bros. 3 again. It is after all, one of the best games of all time. There are few games that can be compared with Shigeru Miyamoto's games, much less DOTA. Please,just admit that DOTA is the first game you've ever played and you're not a gamer at all.

    Bear in mind, I have never said that DOTA is a bad game. I've played it quite a bit before and loved it then. I especially loved the feeling of ganking on one guy till he's crippled for the rest of the round. It's just the ignorance that turned me off. It's just like American ignorance. They invented American Football, Indycar and Ice Hockey thinking they're awesome and innovative when in fact those sports are just derivatives and they are just newbies dropping into the scene.

  49. SpAcEsNaKe // September 20, 2007 at 1:11 PM  

    I play dota alot. Infact, Im completely obsessed with it. Nonethless, I can admit that it requires less skill than other games such as standard ladder wcIII and CS. I find dota more fun than those games, that's why I play it. But only a fool would argue there is as much of a skill margin in dota as there is in other games. That's simply not true. The fact you only control 1 unit makes this FACT. It cannot be argued otherwise. Sure, there is team co-ordination, but a 5v5 game of ladder has MUCH more skill than a 5v5 game of DotA. Nonetheless, I get pissed at dota-flamers. Just cause our game has less of a skill-margin, doesn't give you the right to criticize what we find fun. And it's not ENTIRELY skilless...

  50. SenG // September 25, 2007 at 6:23 PM  

    I m once starcraft player, then cs player, then a warcraft player, then a dota player, from my POV dota sucks.

    DOTA SUCKS?! why? Dota do not nid skill, do not nid strategy, do not nid anything, just nid to download the map and play... and it was imbalance, goblin is imba, faceless is imba, spectre is imba, everything is imba.

    I still remember the first time i play CS, sniper is imba, AK is imba, deagele is imba, carbine is imba, why i cant own wif some other guns? Then wc3, OMG, Orc is imba, undead is imba..... Btw, some flamers even throw reason such as: dota never update to solve their imbaness, dota got so many version, that was all from updating.....

    Pubs player think dota is so easy to master, just click and attack creeps only mar..... and kill people lar..... very hard MEH, this is for pubbie case, explaining map control / ganking / map strategy like trilane / 5v5 / skirmish fight / early-mid-late situation or item + hero form what strategy is completely useless. "Just stay alive and farm", hear also know was from noob's mouth. CS also same lar, just kill people and stay alive mar

    Dota is completely different in competitive play, and it could be the best game that play in competitive mode in my life time. I like CS, we can say CS is similiar to dota, but i will say CS cant compare to dota, not becoz they are different game, BECAUSE DOTA ARE MORE STRATEGIC, MORE FUN, MORE SKILLFUL than CS. It is truth, do not lie to yourself.

    For every flamer to dota, do not have to think before u flame dota, go try it

  51. -ArmedandDangerous- // October 9, 2007 at 6:07 PM  

    First of all, MORE FUN is a relative term. Hell, porn games are fun too if you want to put it that way. Secondly, MORE SKILLFUL!! Wtf is that. DOTA needs more skill then CS? OMG.. Have you ever watched pro's play CS? Now, have you ever watched pro's play DOTA? Now, compare yourself to the pro's in DOTA, how far away are you from their level? I bet it's not that much, just that they practice more on the same strategies that you yourself know. Now compare your skills in CS to the pros. How far are you from them? Bloody far I tell you, cos I've trained for WCG before and I tell you the difference is giganto. Now, which is more skillful> In CS your strategies are almost limitless, every gun,grenade and pistol is for a different use,every player can be at a different corner, and to get all that coordinated takes a hell lot of skill. DOTA, theres only 3 main roads to travel, if you're not here,you're over at the other two roads. yes, smaller path ways exist, but that's it.

    And you want to compare the games you've played? All the examples you gave were RTS ones. Hell, I got into the top 4 for WCG C&C Generals a few years ago. Hell, that meant nothing to me cos I lost to a far superior player. I've even burned my certificate, vowing vengeance and playing better. As fate has it, the next year Generals was no longer contested and I lost my only WCG achievement.. Screw it, DOTA sucks and thats it.

    And another thing, half your posts praise DOTA, the other half bashes it. I'm confused...

  52. MidKnight // February 4, 2008 at 3:11 AM  

    Well, I could call myself DoTA hater, but not because map is that bad.It's well balanced,requires teamwork and is good looking (heroes,spells,items).

    BUT It sickens me when some guy who decides to start playing w3 goes straight to DoTA without even trying the GAME itself.DoTA is a TREND (!),MOST players play it only b/c it's so popular.It's another form of "fitting in".You also can't deny it's easier to play well than actual RTS.

    DoTA does require skill, but so does any other game / custom map.
    People just ignore most other GREAT maps, because they aren't popular.I think you know what I mean..People always tend to do popular things.(pop music, or younglings starting to smoke because every1 in their class does example anyone?)..

    You can't deny that w3 is full of retarded people who play whatever is easiest and can't think for themselves..

    Soo basically DoTA is well made map,which is fun and quite easy to play.The main point of hating DoTA for me is because of 95% of its players, who think better of themselves just because they play "most popular, got made game".

  53. RaRa // March 21, 2008 at 11:48 AM  

    Yeah..i have to agree..i would spent half of my day in cc just to play dota..cs?sometimes..bored with it..

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